I agree that people should be taught a general solution to the problem
of figuring out bindsym (xev). In the long run, I believe this will
customizations which are not possible without a tool like xev. I agree
what we have found to be best practices in our years of supporting i3.
should not be our goal to provide our users with a consumer experience.
to configure bindings and then link to it in the default config.
Post by Ingo Bürk
first of all, please don't misquote me. I didn't say that it's "better
in every way", I said that it's "better in every case", that is both
the case of your suggestion being for the correct layout and the case
where it's a different layout. That's an entirely different statement.
And these "xev" answers continue to ignore education I was providing
that you may be able to think of numlock as shift+3.
The point still being that you are providing education for a very
specific layout you don't even know the person is using. If you're so
keen on suggesting such detailed answers, that's a piece of
information you should've included. Because if I am someone who
doesn't know my way around this kind of stuff, I would be completely
lost as to why you are telling me that the # sign is a Shift modifier
for 3 when on my laptop those two symbols are on entirely opposite
sides of the keyboard (which is not an exaggeration, the # is to the
left of the Enter key on my layout and doesn't require any modifiers).
Besides, and you can think of this as a lame excuse if you want to, I
do actually expect people to put in some effort of using a search
engine of their choice. Even for answers they get. You can find plenty
of information on _how_ to use xev to do this once you learned that
xev is the tool you should be looking at. So why duplicate all the
information if instead it's yet another chance for someone to improve
their research skills? And that doesn't mean it's where helping has to
end; if they have trouble finding proper information, they will ask
again and I will continue helping them out. I'm just not into serving
everything on a silver platter and robbing them of their chance to
gain experience and improve their abilities; and quite frankly I think
it's a terrible thing of a teacher to do so because really, those
people don't know better â you (and I don't mean you-you, but the
helper-you) should, however.
Could I have written it in more detail as you suggested in the end?
Sure. I like what you wrote there, it's helpful. But I'm also not
going to write it every single time this question comes up, which
really is about once a week at the least, if instead the user can type
it into Google and find one of the many other posts where people
explained it already.
You might want to refrain from backing your argument up with [âŠ]
I most certainly won't. I really don't care how you think someone
might interpret it. What it meant is what it said; I've been helping,
and teaching, for a long long time. And my finding is that people gain
much more by being taught to learn rather than being given the
answers. I'm not sure if you are saying that you disagree, and I
really wouldn't care if you did. You give your answers in which ever
shape or form you want to, but I will do the same.
Feel free to reply back, but I'm going to end this rather silly
discussion. I stand by everything I said. Let's have everyone form
their own opinion and if anyone favors your answer, that's fine with
me, too. I have my personal agenda on how to help and I've also
learned that not everyone is open to that.
Meditate on better ways of saying "the xev suggestion is better in
every way", especially when xev has already been beaten to death,
with none of the "xev" answers being close to "teaching people
finding a solution". And these "xev" answers continue to ignore
education I was providing that you may be able to think of numlock as
You might want to refrain from backing your argument up with "I've
been doing this for over a decade now". It's something that many
people learn to translate to "I'm just looking to pick an argument
here". Others find it hilarious when the person they are responding
to replies with a much larger pedigree. For example, the first time
I ran "xev" was in the '80s. I remember it clearly. Just trying to
help prevent someone else from being similarly scarred.
Hey, I know xev was already mentioned, and Sean mentioned that you
might be able to get by with "shift+3". In the case of #, you can
find out exactly what keycode is sent (because it could be called
pound or number sign or hash or octothorpe), you can use a tool
called xev. Start a terminal and type "xev". The terminal will
probably need to be kind of big, because xev produces a lot of
output. It opens another window. Put your mouse in this window,
making sure that you can still see the terminal. Now type the key
you want, in this case "#". Every paragraph of output is an event,
you are looking for a "KeyPress event", and look at the section of it
that says "keysym". For me it says "keycode 12 (keysym 0x24,
numbersign)". So, you can put "$mod+numbersign" in your i3 config.
and where have I demeaned your answer? It's merely a fact that
your answer provided less of a learning effect and that it is
wrong for a wide variety of keyboards. At no point did I say that
it is a _bad_ answer, though.
There's a difference between demeaning an answer and explaining
why another is better and I will always suggest (and defend)
teaching people finding a solution rather than just giving it to
them. Something I have learned in over a decade of doing this now.
Post by Sean Reifschneider
The answer "figure out xev", no matter what you say, doesn't
preclude or require demeaning the answer "Think of # as a shift
modifier of 3". The latter, of course, doesn't require chasing
down that it is spelled "numbersign".
Thanks to Florian though, I had never used the scratchpad, and
now I've tried it and love it. So, there's that.
The reason the xev suggestion is better in every case is
because it teaches you how to figure it out in general. So
you actually learn something.
Presenting people with answers that don't explain the how or
why isn't helpful in the long run.
Sent from TypeApp <http://www.typeapp.com/r>
On May 8, 2016, at 04:05, Sean Reifschneider
Sure, maybe it isnt helpful, but if it is it is way
easier than mucking with xev. :-)
On Sat, May 7, 2016, 11:03 Johannes Lange
Post by Sean Reifschneider
I think you are looking for mod+shift+= and
That highly depends on your keyboard layout...
The `xev` suggestion is probably helpful.