Discussion:
Activate scratchpad when using systray icon
(too old to reply)
Florian Lindner
2016-05-06 14:05:40 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

I have these two lines in my config

for_window [title="Amarok"] move scratchpad
bindsym $mod+n [title="Amarok"] fullscreen enable, scratchpad show

This works nicely, but I can't activate amarok using the systray icon. Is there a way to switch to scratchpad when the window is activated (becomes urgent)?

BTW: How can I bind something to $mod++ or $mod+#. What are the symbolic names?

Thanks,
Florian
Karl Tarbe
2016-05-07 12:55:46 UTC
Permalink
For finding out symbols, there is tool called xev. I let others help you
with the other part of your question.

Karl
Post by Florian Lindner
Hello,
I have these two lines in my config
for_window [title="Amarok"] move scratchpad
bindsym $mod+n [title="Amarok"] fullscreen enable, scratchpad show
This works nicely, but I can't activate amarok using the systray icon. Is
there a way to switch to scratchpad when the window is activated (becomes
urgent)?
BTW: How can I bind something to $mod++ or $mod+#. What are the symbolic names?
Thanks,
Florian
Sean Reifschneider
2016-05-07 14:38:43 UTC
Permalink
I think you are looking for mod+shift+= and mod+shift+3
Post by Karl Tarbe
For finding out symbols, there is tool called xev. I let others help you
with the other part of your question.
Karl
Post by Florian Lindner
Hello,
I have these two lines in my config
for_window [title="Amarok"] move scratchpad
bindsym $mod+n [title="Amarok"] fullscreen enable, scratchpad show
This works nicely, but I can't activate amarok using the systray icon. Is
there a way to switch to scratchpad when the window is activated (becomes
urgent)?
BTW: How can I bind something to $mod++ or $mod+#. What are the symbolic names?
Thanks,
Florian
Johannes Lange
2016-05-07 17:02:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sean Reifschneider
I think you are looking for mod+shift+= and mod+shift+3
That highly depends on your keyboard layout...
The `xev` suggestion is probably helpful.

Best,
Johannes
Sean Reifschneider
2016-05-08 02:05:23 UTC
Permalink
Sure, maybe it isnt helpful, but if it is it is way easier than mucking
with xev. :-)
Post by Johannes Lange
Post by Sean Reifschneider
I think you are looking for mod+shift+= and mod+shift+3
That highly depends on your keyboard layout...
The `xev` suggestion is probably helpful.
Best,
Johannes
Ingo Bürk
2016-05-08 07:36:53 UTC
Permalink
The reason the xev suggestion is better in every case is because it teaches you how to figure it out in general. So you actually learn something.

Presenting people with answers that don't explain the how or why isn't helpful in the long run.

Ingo

Sent from TypeApp
Post by Sean Reifschneider
Sure, maybe it isnt helpful, but if it is it is way easier than mucking
with xev. :-)
On Sat, May 7, 2016, 11:03 Johannes Lange
Post by Johannes Lange
Post by Sean Reifschneider
I think you are looking for mod+shift+= and mod+shift+3
That highly depends on your keyboard layout...
The `xev` suggestion is probably helpful.
Best,
Johannes
Sean Reifschneider
2016-05-10 20:28:21 UTC
Permalink
The answer "figure out xev", no matter what you say, doesn't preclude or
require demeaning the answer "Think of # as a shift modifier of 3". The
latter, of course, doesn't require chasing down that it is spelled
"numbersign".

Thanks to Florian though, I had never used the scratchpad, and now I've
tried it and love it. So, there's that.

Sean
Post by Ingo Bürk
The reason the xev suggestion is better in every case is because it
teaches you how to figure it out in general. So you actually learn
something.
Presenting people with answers that don't explain the how or why isn't
helpful in the long run.
Ingo
Sent from TypeApp <http://www.typeapp.com/r>
Post by Sean Reifschneider
Sure, maybe it isnt helpful, but if it is it is way easier than mucking
with xev. :-)
Post by Johannes Lange
Post by Sean Reifschneider
I think you are looking for mod+shift+= and mod+shift+3
That highly depends on your keyboard layout...
The `xev` suggestion is probably helpful.
Best,
Johannes
Serge van Ginderachter
2016-05-10 20:31:36 UTC
Permalink
On 10 May 2016 at 22:28, Sean Reifschneider <***@gmail.com> wrote:
​You, dear sir, just made my day. Thank you.​


Serge
Ingo Bürk
2016-05-10 20:39:14 UTC
Permalink
Hi Sean,

and where have I demeaned your answer? It's merely a fact that your
answer provided less of a learning effect and that it is wrong for a
wide variety of keyboards. At no point did I say that it is a _bad_
answer, though.

There's a difference between demeaning an answer and explaining why
another is better and I will always suggest (and defend) teaching people
finding a solution rather than just giving it to them. Something I have
learned in over a decade of doing this now.


Ingo
Post by Sean Reifschneider
The answer "figure out xev", no matter what you say, doesn't preclude
or require demeaning the answer "Think of # as a shift modifier of
3". The latter, of course, doesn't require chasing down that it is
spelled "numbersign".
Thanks to Florian though, I had never used the scratchpad, and now
I've tried it and love it. So, there's that.
Sean
The reason the xev suggestion is better in every case is because
it teaches you how to figure it out in general. So you actually
learn something.
Presenting people with answers that don't explain the how or why
isn't helpful in the long run.
Ingo
Sent from TypeApp <http://www.typeapp.com/r>
Sure, maybe it isnt helpful, but if it is it is way easier
than mucking with xev. :-)
On Sat, May 7, 2016, 11:03 Johannes Lange
Post by Sean Reifschneider
I think you are looking for mod+shift+= and mod+shift+3
That highly depends on your keyboard layout...
The `xev` suggestion is probably helpful.
Best,
Johannes
Sean Reifschneider
2016-05-10 20:55:01 UTC
Permalink
Meditate on better ways of saying "the xev suggestion is better in every
way", especially when xev has already been beaten to death, with none of
the "xev" answers being close to "teaching people finding a solution". And
these "xev" answers continue to ignore education I was providing that you
may be able to think of numlock as shift+3.

You might want to refrain from backing your argument up with "I've been
doing this for over a decade now". It's something that many people learn
to translate to "I'm just looking to pick an argument here". Others find
it hilarious when the person they are responding to replies with a much
larger pedigree. For example, the first time I ran "xev" was in the '80s.
I remember it clearly. Just trying to help prevent someone else from being
similarly scarred.

You want to "teach people to find a solution"? Try this:

Hey, I know xev was already mentioned, and Sean mentioned that you might be
able to get by with "shift+3". In the case of #, you can find out exactly
what keycode is sent (because it could be called pound or number sign or
hash or octothorpe), you can use a tool called xev. Start a terminal and
type "xev". The terminal will probably need to be kind of big, because xev
produces a lot of output. It opens another window. Put your mouse in this
window, making sure that you can still see the terminal. Now type the key
you want, in this case "#". Every paragraph of output is an event, you are
looking for a "KeyPress event", and look at the section of it that says
"keysym". For me it says "keycode 12 (keysym 0x24, numbersign)". So, you
can put "$mod+numbersign" in your i3 config.

Sean
Post by Ingo Bürk
Hi Sean,
and where have I demeaned your answer? It's merely a fact that your answer
provided less of a learning effect and that it is wrong for a wide variety
of keyboards. At no point did I say that it is a _bad_ answer, though.
There's a difference between demeaning an answer and explaining why
another is better and I will always suggest (and defend) teaching people
finding a solution rather than just giving it to them. Something I have
learned in over a decade of doing this now.
Ingo
The answer "figure out xev", no matter what you say, doesn't preclude or
require demeaning the answer "Think of # as a shift modifier of 3". The
latter, of course, doesn't require chasing down that it is spelled
"numbersign".
Thanks to Florian though, I had never used the scratchpad, and now I've
tried it and love it. So, there's that.
Sean
Post by Ingo Bürk
The reason the xev suggestion is better in every case is because it
teaches you how to figure it out in general. So you actually learn
something.
Presenting people with answers that don't explain the how or why isn't
helpful in the long run.
Ingo
Sent from TypeApp <http://www.typeapp.com/r>
Post by Sean Reifschneider
Sure, maybe it isnt helpful, but if it is it is way easier than mucking
with xev. :-)
Post by Johannes Lange
Post by Sean Reifschneider
I think you are looking for mod+shift+= and mod+shift+3
That highly depends on your keyboard layout...
The `xev` suggestion is probably helpful.
Best,
Johannes
Ingo Bürk
2016-05-10 21:12:41 UTC
Permalink
Hi Sean,

first of all, please don't misquote me. I didn't say that it's "better
in every way", I said that it's "better in every case", that is both the
case of your suggestion being for the correct layout and the case where
it's a different layout. That's an entirely different statement.
And these "xev" answers continue to ignore education I was providing
that you may be able to think of numlock as shift+3.

The point still being that you are providing education for a very
specific layout you don't even know the person is using. If you're so
keen on suggesting such detailed answers, that's a piece of information
you should've included. Because if I am someone who doesn't know my way
around this kind of stuff, I would be completely lost as to why you are
telling me that the # sign is a Shift modifier for 3 when on my laptop
those two symbols are on entirely opposite sides of the keyboard (which
is not an exaggeration, the # is to the left of the Enter key on my
layout and doesn't require any modifiers).

Besides, and you can think of this as a lame excuse if you want to, I do
actually expect people to put in some effort of using a search engine of
their choice. Even for answers they get. You can find plenty of
information on _how_ to use xev to do this once you learned that xev is
the tool you should be looking at. So why duplicate all the information
if instead it's yet another chance for someone to improve their research
skills? And that doesn't mean it's where helping has to end; if they
have trouble finding proper information, they will ask again and I will
continue helping them out. I'm just not into serving everything on a
silver platter and robbing them of their chance to gain experience and
improve their abilities; and quite frankly I think it's a terrible thing
of a teacher to do so because really, those people don't know better –
you (and I don't mean you-you, but the helper-you) should, however.

Could I have written it in more detail as you suggested in the end?
Sure. I like what you wrote there, it's helpful. But I'm also not going
to write it every single time this question comes up, which really is
about once a week at the least, if instead the user can type it into
Google and find one of the many other posts where people explained it
already.
You might want to refrain from backing your argument up with [
]
I most certainly won't. I really don't care how you think someone might
interpret it. What it meant is what it said; I've been helping, and
teaching, for a long long time. And my finding is that people gain much
more by being taught to learn rather than being given the answers. I'm
not sure if you are saying that you disagree, and I really wouldn't care
if you did. You give your answers in which ever shape or form you want
to, but I will do the same.

Feel free to reply back, but I'm going to end this rather silly
discussion. I stand by everything I said. Let's have everyone form their
own opinion and if anyone favors your answer, that's fine with me, too.
I have my personal agenda on how to help and I've also learned that not
everyone is open to that.


Ingo
Meditate on better ways of saying "the xev suggestion is better in
every way", especially when xev has already been beaten to death, with
none of the "xev" answers being close to "teaching people finding a
solution". And these "xev" answers continue to ignore education I was
providing that you may be able to think of numlock as shift+3.
You might want to refrain from backing your argument up with "I've
been doing this for over a decade now". It's something that many
people learn to translate to "I'm just looking to pick an argument
here". Others find it hilarious when the person they are responding
to replies with a much larger pedigree. For example, the first time I
ran "xev" was in the '80s. I remember it clearly. Just trying to
help prevent someone else from being similarly scarred.
Hey, I know xev was already mentioned, and Sean mentioned that you
might be able to get by with "shift+3". In the case of #, you can
find out exactly what keycode is sent (because it could be called
pound or number sign or hash or octothorpe), you can use a tool called
xev. Start a terminal and type "xev". The terminal will probably
need to be kind of big, because xev produces a lot of output. It
opens another window. Put your mouse in this window, making sure that
you can still see the terminal. Now type the key you want, in this
case "#". Every paragraph of output is an event, you are looking for
a "KeyPress event", and look at the section of it that says "keysym".
For me it says "keycode 12 (keysym 0x24, numbersign)". So, you can
put "$mod+numbersign" in your i3 config.
Sean
Hi Sean,
and where have I demeaned your answer? It's merely a fact that
your answer provided less of a learning effect and that it is
wrong for a wide variety of keyboards. At no point did I say that
it is a _bad_ answer, though.
There's a difference between demeaning an answer and explaining
why another is better and I will always suggest (and defend)
teaching people finding a solution rather than just giving it to
them. Something I have learned in over a decade of doing this now.
Ingo
Post by Sean Reifschneider
The answer "figure out xev", no matter what you say, doesn't
preclude or require demeaning the answer "Think of # as a shift
modifier of 3". The latter, of course, doesn't require chasing
down that it is spelled "numbersign".
Thanks to Florian though, I had never used the scratchpad, and
now I've tried it and love it. So, there's that.
Sean
The reason the xev suggestion is better in every case is
because it teaches you how to figure it out in general. So
you actually learn something.
Presenting people with answers that don't explain the how or
why isn't helpful in the long run.
Ingo
Sent from TypeApp <http://www.typeapp.com/r>
On May 8, 2016, at 04:05, Sean Reifschneider
Sure, maybe it isnt helpful, but if it is it is way
easier than mucking with xev. :-)
On Sat, May 7, 2016, 11:03 Johannes Lange
Post by Sean Reifschneider
I think you are looking for mod+shift+= and mod+shift+3
That highly depends on your keyboard layout...
The `xev` suggestion is probably helpful.
Best,
Johannes
Tony Crisci
2016-05-11 00:10:04 UTC
Permalink
I agree that people should be taught a general solution to the problem
of figuring out bindsym (xev). In the long run, I believe this will
actually save people time and enable them to do more complicated
customizations which are not possible without a tool like xev. I agree
with Ingo that any advice for this not including xev is simply ignoring
what we have found to be best practices in our years of supporting i3.

A complete answer would be nice, but it is not practical to do so in
these support channels because this is not big corporate OSS and it
should not be our goal to provide our users with a consumer experience.

Given how frequently this comes up, and how vital xev is to configuring
i3, I think the best solution is to create an indepth guide to using xev
to configure bindings and then link to it in the default config.
Post by Ingo Bürk
Hi Sean,
first of all, please don't misquote me. I didn't say that it's "better
in every way", I said that it's "better in every case", that is both
the case of your suggestion being for the correct layout and the case
where it's a different layout. That's an entirely different statement.
And these "xev" answers continue to ignore education I was providing
that you may be able to think of numlock as shift+3.
The point still being that you are providing education for a very
specific layout you don't even know the person is using. If you're so
keen on suggesting such detailed answers, that's a piece of
information you should've included. Because if I am someone who
doesn't know my way around this kind of stuff, I would be completely
lost as to why you are telling me that the # sign is a Shift modifier
for 3 when on my laptop those two symbols are on entirely opposite
sides of the keyboard (which is not an exaggeration, the # is to the
left of the Enter key on my layout and doesn't require any modifiers).
Besides, and you can think of this as a lame excuse if you want to, I
do actually expect people to put in some effort of using a search
engine of their choice. Even for answers they get. You can find plenty
of information on _how_ to use xev to do this once you learned that
xev is the tool you should be looking at. So why duplicate all the
information if instead it's yet another chance for someone to improve
their research skills? And that doesn't mean it's where helping has to
end; if they have trouble finding proper information, they will ask
again and I will continue helping them out. I'm just not into serving
everything on a silver platter and robbing them of their chance to
gain experience and improve their abilities; and quite frankly I think
it's a terrible thing of a teacher to do so because really, those
people don't know better – you (and I don't mean you-you, but the
helper-you) should, however.
Could I have written it in more detail as you suggested in the end?
Sure. I like what you wrote there, it's helpful. But I'm also not
going to write it every single time this question comes up, which
really is about once a week at the least, if instead the user can type
it into Google and find one of the many other posts where people
explained it already.
You might want to refrain from backing your argument up with [
]
I most certainly won't. I really don't care how you think someone
might interpret it. What it meant is what it said; I've been helping,
and teaching, for a long long time. And my finding is that people gain
much more by being taught to learn rather than being given the
answers. I'm not sure if you are saying that you disagree, and I
really wouldn't care if you did. You give your answers in which ever
shape or form you want to, but I will do the same.
Feel free to reply back, but I'm going to end this rather silly
discussion. I stand by everything I said. Let's have everyone form
their own opinion and if anyone favors your answer, that's fine with
me, too. I have my personal agenda on how to help and I've also
learned that not everyone is open to that.
Ingo
Meditate on better ways of saying "the xev suggestion is better in
every way", especially when xev has already been beaten to death,
with none of the "xev" answers being close to "teaching people
finding a solution". And these "xev" answers continue to ignore
education I was providing that you may be able to think of numlock as
shift+3.
You might want to refrain from backing your argument up with "I've
been doing this for over a decade now". It's something that many
people learn to translate to "I'm just looking to pick an argument
here". Others find it hilarious when the person they are responding
to replies with a much larger pedigree. For example, the first time
I ran "xev" was in the '80s. I remember it clearly. Just trying to
help prevent someone else from being similarly scarred.
Hey, I know xev was already mentioned, and Sean mentioned that you
might be able to get by with "shift+3". In the case of #, you can
find out exactly what keycode is sent (because it could be called
pound or number sign or hash or octothorpe), you can use a tool
called xev. Start a terminal and type "xev". The terminal will
probably need to be kind of big, because xev produces a lot of
output. It opens another window. Put your mouse in this window,
making sure that you can still see the terminal. Now type the key
you want, in this case "#". Every paragraph of output is an event,
you are looking for a "KeyPress event", and look at the section of it
that says "keysym". For me it says "keycode 12 (keysym 0x24,
numbersign)". So, you can put "$mod+numbersign" in your i3 config.
Sean
Hi Sean,
and where have I demeaned your answer? It's merely a fact that
your answer provided less of a learning effect and that it is
wrong for a wide variety of keyboards. At no point did I say that
it is a _bad_ answer, though.
There's a difference between demeaning an answer and explaining
why another is better and I will always suggest (and defend)
teaching people finding a solution rather than just giving it to
them. Something I have learned in over a decade of doing this now.
Ingo
Post by Sean Reifschneider
The answer "figure out xev", no matter what you say, doesn't
preclude or require demeaning the answer "Think of # as a shift
modifier of 3". The latter, of course, doesn't require chasing
down that it is spelled "numbersign".
Thanks to Florian though, I had never used the scratchpad, and
now I've tried it and love it. So, there's that.
Sean
The reason the xev suggestion is better in every case is
because it teaches you how to figure it out in general. So
you actually learn something.
Presenting people with answers that don't explain the how or
why isn't helpful in the long run.
Ingo
Sent from TypeApp <http://www.typeapp.com/r>
On May 8, 2016, at 04:05, Sean Reifschneider
Sure, maybe it isnt helpful, but if it is it is way
easier than mucking with xev. :-)
On Sat, May 7, 2016, 11:03 Johannes Lange
Post by Sean Reifschneider
I think you are looking for mod+shift+= and
mod+shift+3
That highly depends on your keyboard layout...
The `xev` suggestion is probably helpful.
Best,
Johannes
Florian Lindner
2016-05-11 08:28:02 UTC
Permalink
Hey,

the xev solution is perfectly fine for me, if it would have included...
Post by Sean Reifschneider
Meditate on better ways of saying "the xev suggestion is better in every
way", especially when xev has already been beaten to death, with none of
the "xev" answers being close to "teaching people finding a solution". And
these "xev" answers continue to ignore education I was providing that you
may be able to think of numlock as shift+3.
You might want to refrain from backing your argument up with "I've been
doing this for over a decade now". It's something that many people learn
to translate to "I'm just looking to pick an argument here". Others find
it hilarious when the person they are responding to replies with a much
larger pedigree. For example, the first time I ran "xev" was in the '80s.
I remember it clearly. Just trying to help prevent someone else from being
similarly scarred.
Hey, I know xev was already mentioned, and Sean mentioned that you might be
able to get by with "shift+3". In the case of #, you can find out exactly
what keycode is sent (because it could be called pound or number sign or
hash or octothorpe), you can use a tool called xev. Start a terminal and
type "xev". The terminal will probably need to be kind of big, because xev
produces a lot of output. It opens another window. Put your mouse in this
window, making sure that you can still see the terminal. Now type the key
you want, in this case "#". Every paragraph of output is an event, you are
looking for a "KeyPress event", and look at the section of it that says
"keysym".
For me it says "keycode 12 (keysym 0x24, numbersign)". So, you
can put "$mod+numbersign" in your i3 config.
... this. I know xev and have used it, but I didn't know where to find the symbolic name (here: numbersign) that i3 uses.

Shift+3 really wouldn't have worked for me, this is § on my German layout.

Best Regards & Peace!

Florian
Post by Sean Reifschneider
Sean
Post by Ingo Bürk
Hi Sean,
and where have I demeaned your answer? It's merely a fact that your answer
provided less of a learning effect and that it is wrong for a wide variety
of keyboards. At no point did I say that it is a _bad_ answer, though.
There's a difference between demeaning an answer and explaining why
another is better and I will always suggest (and defend) teaching people
finding a solution rather than just giving it to them. Something I have
learned in over a decade of doing this now.
Ingo
The answer "figure out xev", no matter what you say, doesn't preclude or
require demeaning the answer "Think of # as a shift modifier of 3". The
latter, of course, doesn't require chasing down that it is spelled
"numbersign".
Thanks to Florian though, I had never used the scratchpad, and now I've
tried it and love it. So, there's that.
Sean
Post by Ingo Bürk
The reason the xev suggestion is better in every case is because it
teaches you how to figure it out in general. So you actually learn
something.
Presenting people with answers that don't explain the how or why isn't
helpful in the long run.
Ingo
Sent from TypeApp <http://www.typeapp.com/r>
Post by Sean Reifschneider
Sure, maybe it isnt helpful, but if it is it is way easier than mucking
with xev. :-)
Post by Johannes Lange
Post by Sean Reifschneider
I think you are looking for mod+shift+= and mod+shift+3
That highly depends on your keyboard layout...
The `xev` suggestion is probably helpful.
Best,
Johannes
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