Discussion:
Dumb questions - onboarding experience
(too old to reply)
anatoly techtonik
2017-10-08 08:40:59 UTC
Permalink
I managed to login, and i3 proposed to create
some config with Win key as default, but then I
got lost.

Why there is no first time help for new users?

I pressed F1 to read some guidelines. When F1
didn't work I started pressing all keys including
H, Ctrl-H, ?, but nothing happened. I decided to
log out and switch to another UI to read help
online. I knew Ctrl-D from bash, so pressed it
and instead of logging out I got the prompt that
allowed me to run Firefox. Now I am writing from
that Firefox with no idea how to logout, switch to
desktop or read help on shortcuts, except by
googling to the official site.

So why using i3 requires online session?
How users are supposed to learn i3 without
internet connection?
--
anatoly t.
Ingo Bürk
2017-10-08 08:52:59 UTC
Permalink
You can download the userguide for offline usage, if you want. You need Internet connection at least at some point to download i3 anyway, so it's a fair assumption.

And yes, we expect that people are able to read documentation. The target audience for i3 is advanced / power users. If you need to see what key bindings are configured specifically on the i3 on your system, you can view the config file.


Ingo

⁣Sent from TypeApp ​
Post by anatoly techtonik
I managed to login, and i3 proposed to create
some config with Win key as default, but then I
got lost.
Why there is no first time help for new users?
I pressed F1 to read some guidelines. When F1
didn't work I started pressing all keys including
H, Ctrl-H, ?, but nothing happened. I decided to
log out and switch to another UI to read help
online. I knew Ctrl-D from bash, so pressed it
and instead of logging out I got the prompt that
allowed me to run Firefox. Now I am writing from
that Firefox with no idea how to logout, switch to
desktop or read help on shortcuts, except by
googling to the official site.
So why using i3 requires online session?
How users are supposed to learn i3 without
internet connection?
--
anatoly t.
anatoly techtonik
2017-10-08 09:05:45 UTC
Permalink
There are many ways I can make i3 preinstalled on
user systems with standard means, but I do not see
a way for them to discover and open the manual when
they login. The onboarding process doesn't work in
this scenario.
Post by Ingo Bürk
You can download the userguide for offline usage, if you want. You need
Internet connection at least at some point to download i3 anyway, so it's a
fair assumption.
And yes, we expect that people are able to read documentation. The target
audience for i3 is advanced / power users. If you need to see what key
bindings are configured specifically on the i3 on your system, you can view
the config file.
Ingo
Sent from TypeApp
Post by anatoly techtonik
I managed to login, and i3 proposed to create
some config with Win key as default, but then I
got lost.
Why there is no first time help for new users?
I pressed F1 to read some guidelines. When F1
didn't work I started pressing all keys including
H, Ctrl-H, ?, but nothing happened. I decided to
log out and switch to another UI to read help
online. I knew Ctrl-D from bash, so pressed it
and instead of logging out I got the prompt that
allowed me to run Firefox. Now I am writing from
that Firefox with no idea how to logout, switch to
desktop or read help on shortcuts, except by
googling to the official site.
So why using i3 requires online session?
How users are supposed to learn i3 without
internet connection?
--
anatoly t.
Ingo Bürk
2017-10-08 09:08:06 UTC
Permalink
I don't think i3 is a good choice for something to preinstall for users without their explicit upfront knowledge of what window manager they are about to get.

If you want to bundle i3 in a distro like the Manjaro spin you can also preinstall the userguide in any Form you'd like.

⁣Sent from TypeApp ​
Post by anatoly techtonik
There are many ways I can make i3 preinstalled on
user systems with standard means, but I do not see
a way for them to discover and open the manual when
they login. The onboarding process doesn't work in
this scenario.
Post by Ingo Bürk
You can download the userguide for offline usage, if you want. You
need
Post by Ingo Bürk
Internet connection at least at some point to download i3 anyway, so
it's a
Post by Ingo Bürk
fair assumption.
And yes, we expect that people are able to read documentation. The
target
Post by Ingo Bürk
audience for i3 is advanced / power users. If you need to see what
key
Post by Ingo Bürk
bindings are configured specifically on the i3 on your system, you
can view
Post by Ingo Bürk
the config file.
Ingo
Sent from TypeApp
Post by anatoly techtonik
I managed to login, and i3 proposed to create
some config with Win key as default, but then I
got lost.
Why there is no first time help for new users?
I pressed F1 to read some guidelines. When F1
didn't work I started pressing all keys including
H, Ctrl-H, ?, but nothing happened. I decided to
log out and switch to another UI to read help
online. I knew Ctrl-D from bash, so pressed it
and instead of logging out I got the prompt that
allowed me to run Firefox. Now I am writing from
that Firefox with no idea how to logout, switch to
desktop or read help on shortcuts, except by
googling to the official site.
So why using i3 requires online session?
How users are supposed to learn i3 without
internet connection?
--
anatoly t.
Petra Oleum
2017-10-08 09:18:37 UTC
Permalink
Ultimately you really need to read the manual *before* you install
things, i3 especially.

--Petra
Post by anatoly techtonik
There are many ways I can make i3 preinstalled on
user systems with standard means, but I do not see
a way for them to discover and open the manual when
they login. The onboarding process doesn't work in
this scenario.
Post by Ingo Bürk
You can download the userguide for offline usage, if you want. You need
Internet connection at least at some point to download i3 anyway, so it's a
fair assumption.
And yes, we expect that people are able to read documentation. The target
audience for i3 is advanced / power users. If you need to see what key
bindings are configured specifically on the i3 on your system, you can view
the config file.
Ingo
Sent from TypeApp
Post by anatoly techtonik
I managed to login, and i3 proposed to create
some config with Win key as default, but then I
got lost.
Why there is no first time help for new users?
I pressed F1 to read some guidelines. When F1
didn't work I started pressing all keys including
H, Ctrl-H, ?, but nothing happened. I decided to
log out and switch to another UI to read help
online. I knew Ctrl-D from bash, so pressed it
and instead of logging out I got the prompt that
allowed me to run Firefox. Now I am writing from
that Firefox with no idea how to logout, switch to
desktop or read help on shortcuts, except by
googling to the official site.
So why using i3 requires online session?
How users are supposed to learn i3 without
internet connection?
--
anatoly t.
Orestis Flo
2017-10-08 09:38:16 UTC
Permalink
I think it would be a good idea to include the userguide as a man page
and maybe have i3-config-wizard open a terminal with the userguide man
page open and/or a terminal with the i3 config file opened in
i3-sensible-editor.
Post by Ingo Bürk
You can download the userguide for offline usage, if you want. You need
Internet connection at least at some point to download i3 anyway, so it's a
fair assumption.
And yes, we expect that people are able to read documentation. The target
audience for i3 is advanced / power users. If you need to see what key
bindings are configured specifically on the i3 on your system, you can view
the config file.
Ingo
Sent from TypeApp
Post by anatoly techtonik
I managed to login, and i3 proposed to create
some config with Win key as default, but then I
got lost.
Why there is no first time help for new users?
I pressed F1 to read some guidelines. When F1
didn't work I started pressing all keys including
H, Ctrl-H, ?, but nothing happened. I decided to
log out and switch to another UI to read help
online. I knew Ctrl-D from bash, so pressed it
and instead of logging out I got the prompt that
allowed me to run Firefox. Now I am writing from
that Firefox with no idea how to logout, switch to
desktop or read help on shortcuts, except by
googling to the official site.
So why using i3 requires online session?
How users are supposed to learn i3 without
internet connection?
anatoly techtonik
2017-10-08 11:44:14 UTC
Permalink
`vim` is popular, because of its `vimtutor` onboarding experience.
Otherwise there is no way for people like me to learn it. I use `vim`
daily, but mostly the features from `tutor`. My former peers who
use only Linux for years and showed it to me didn't know some
things from that `tutor` too.

That window with prompt to to configure default config that pops
up on first start is pretty awesome. If it could be extended to
introduce at least basic window movements and how to run help,
I would follow, and bring it up few more times to memorize by
practising.

Documentation on i3 is good that it is short, but I had tough time
locating shortcuts for *moving windows* as opposed to *moving
between windows* in tree structure. Seeing that tree picture in
documentation really cleared the confusion in my head about that
gray title bars that piled up while I was experimenting with
shortcuts. It would be nice if i3 could generate the same picture
with current situation and listed shortcuts to operate that tree.

Below are separate rants for man pages. I don't know why they
are here. Seems that I just don't like them. =)

`man` pages are installed automatically but they are not interactive
and there is a catch22 trying to bring them up. I managed to run
browser, but I had no idea how to run terminal.

I can bring more critics towards `man` usability - it starts with 34
shortcuts just for moving without listing the obvious PgUp/PgDn
and no info how to jump between See Also topics. If advanced
users are those who use advanced tools then `man` is IMO a
little dated for modern standards of advanced interactive help.
Post by Orestis Flo
I think it would be a good idea to include the userguide as a man page
and maybe have i3-config-wizard open a terminal with the userguide man
page open and/or a terminal with the i3 config file opened in
i3-sensible-editor.
Post by Ingo Bürk
You can download the userguide for offline usage, if you want. You need
Internet connection at least at some point to download i3 anyway, so it's a
fair assumption.
And yes, we expect that people are able to read documentation. The target
audience for i3 is advanced / power users. If you need to see what key
bindings are configured specifically on the i3 on your system, you can view
the config file.
Ingo
Sent from TypeApp
Post by anatoly techtonik
I managed to login, and i3 proposed to create
some config with Win key as default, but then I
got lost.
Why there is no first time help for new users?
I pressed F1 to read some guidelines. When F1
didn't work I started pressing all keys including
H, Ctrl-H, ?, but nothing happened. I decided to
log out and switch to another UI to read help
online. I knew Ctrl-D from bash, so pressed it
and instead of logging out I got the prompt that
allowed me to run Firefox. Now I am writing from
that Firefox with no idea how to logout, switch to
desktop or read help on shortcuts, except by
googling to the official site.
So why using i3 requires online session?
How users are supposed to learn i3 without
internet connection?
--
anatoly t.
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